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| Posted by misato nikto.net 4/18/2006 07:55:28 Play online chess |  Subject: Mathematical Bobby Fischer puzzleMessage: There was no tournament, but of course, a lot of games were played (and a lot of smalltalk as well). No one played a game with their (married or engaged) partner, no one played a game "alone", no one played more than one game with the same opponent. When all the guests had to leave, Miyoko said good-bye to everyone and asked "How many games did you play here?" She got all different answers (=numbers). Finally she asked Bobby and got another different answer. How many games did Bobby Fischer play at this con? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by coyotefan nikto.net 4/18/2006 08:42:27 Play online chess | Sorry Message: OK I am wrong, his execution would be a great event :) Remember who this man is and what he stands for before using such vile language as "Bobby Fischer" on this great site. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by ccmcacollister nikto.net 4/18/2006 10:06:46 Play online chess | Depends! Message: But what happened to the invitation for sugarandspice and me ??! There's another married couple here, on the Global Bounty Hunters. Wonder if they got theirs!? I'm hurt. }8-( }8-) Ps// CF, bet you'd give a grouchy answer too if someone ambushed you with a wakeup call asking how you liked the USA if you had a vendetta tracking you like the (unconvicted) Bobby did! He's entitled to his opinions, and hasn't been treated well by a certain administration that went gunning for him. Not to mention the Pasedena police dept. violating his rights to the extent he claims. ——— Modern Chess Players Prove Bobby Fischer Was Wrong — Bobby Fischer once famously remarked that "chess is dead". What he meant was that so much had been discovered about the game of chess that creativity and innovation were waning. Chess players are certainly better prepared than ever because databases and computers are widely used to analyze and dissect openings. Players can sometimes reel off 20 or more moves before they leave their preparation. That seems to have sucked the life out of some chess openings. Most top players know a couple of lines in the Petroff Defense through more than 20 moves, and it is not uncommon for them to play that out and agree to a draw, if that is the result they want. But there are ... Posted by ionadowman | nikto.net 4/18/2006 14:03:30 Play online chess Is an answer possible here?Message: Since no one played solo, nor played his or her 'partner', that leaves a maximum of 128 games anyone could have played. The numbers of games available to have been played range from 0 to 128, 129 different numbers in all. Of course, Miyoko Watai didn't ask herself, so 129 different responses are possible. Yet I feel that unless this is a trick question with 'yellow bulldozer' as the answer, there isn't enough information. Otherwise the answer is zero... I'll think about this some more... Cheers, Ion ——— Vlad Kramnik and Magnus Carlsen go toe-to-toe at Wijk aan Zee — Corus Wijk aan Zee, the most popular event on the chess calendar, ends tomorrow with ex-champion Vlad Kramnik and the world No1 Magnus Carlsen competing for the lead in the closing rounds. Kramnik won their individual game impressively, but the 19-year-old Norwegian has the easier finish. Carlsen is not yet dominating his chess peers in the style of Bobby Fischer and Garry Kasparov at their peaks, but he is already the man to beat. The reigning world chess champion Vishy Anand has played an uncharacteristically low-key tournament, drawing his first nine games. Nigel Short, in his strongest event for years, has struggled in some games but missed a clear win against Kramnik. ... Posted by ccmcacollister | nikto.net 4/18/2006 15:01:42 Play online chess The Key?!Message: **** ionadowman Like you said, sounds tricky ! But I wonder if the key is not in the above sentence!? That ALL ANSWERS WERE DIFFERENT. And is it saying all were different numbers. Does that mean Bobby's would be a number different from all the others!? Or perhaps that his answer was Not A Number!? That is what I am not clear on from the presentation of (=numbers). We know there are 129 different responses tho, it says. And 0 to 128. hmmm. Yet of the 130 players no one can play themself nor their partner. Thus everyone should have an option of only 128 to play. I assume she did not ask herself and that accounts for 129 rather than 130 "responses". Then Bobby's must be NUMBER I guess, to account for 129 responses. What you think? Even considering this possibility, I havent gotten it yet either! But it is fun to contemplate :) Thanks misato for the brain tease. :) ——— Vladimir Kramnik edges ahead — Vishy Anand may have taken Vladimir Kramnik’s world title but he did him a favour in tenth round at Corus chess tournament when he broke his run of nine draws and defeated the co-leader Alexey Shirov. It was Shirov’s first defeat and Kramnik’s nervy draw with Vassily Ivanchuk gave him the sole lead on 7/10 with three to play but as well as Shirov he has world number one Magnus Carlsen in hot pursuit. Carlsen defeated Sergey Karjakin in what your correspondent found a mystifying game in which Karjakin, playing white seemed to have the initiative and better placed pieces but was soon worse. So the chess tournament is set up perfectly for ... Posted by misato | nikto.net 4/18/2006 22:12:26 Play online chess clarification Message: 2) She got 129 different answers (including Bobbys), all answers were numbers, and its obvious that those numbers were from zero to 128. 3) There is no word-trick in it. I was told this one yesterday with three invited couples and hand-shaking instead of playing chess games (= numbers from zero to six). After solving it I noticed that this problem can be generalized (and 64 is a better number for chess players). So you might as well try it with three (or less?) invited couples. Its just the same. ——— Kramnik claims Carlsen — Vladimir Kramnik played what he described as feeling like “his greatest ever game” to defeat Magnus Carlsen in the ninth round of the Corus chess tournament at Wijk aan Zee. The former world chess champion moved into the joint lead with Alexey Shirov and avenged his defeat at Carlsen’s hands at last December’s London Chess Classic. Scores with four to play: 1-2 Shirov, Kramnik 6.5/9; 3-4 Carlsen, Karjakin 5.5; 5-7 Ivanchuk, Dominguez, Nakamura 5; 8-9 Leko, Anand 4.5; 10 Caruana 3.5; 11-13 Tiviakov, Short, Van Wely 3; 14 Smeets 2.5; ... Posted by mattdw | nikto.net 4/19/2006 00:58:21 Play online chess I think I may have it.Message: ——— Shirov in Sveshnikov — Vladimir Kramnik made his move in the eighth round of the Corus chess tournament at Wijk aan Zee and defeated the US chess champion Hikaru Nakamura to join Magnus Carlsen in second place. Alexey Shirov remains half a point ahead with five to play and he tested Magnus Carlsen’s chess opening preparation by challenging him to repeat the line that decided last year’s MTel tournament when Carlsen lost badly. A fascinating game. In the Sveshnikov Sicilian Black often sacrifices pawns for activity. White is three pawns ahead at the end but cannot coordinate. ... Posted by ionadowman | nikto.net 4/19/2006 02:41:28 Play online chess Thanks mattdw...Message: Nice one. Posted by ccmcacollister | nikto.net 4/19/2006 03:27:15 Play online chess Sounds right to me mattdw Message: I only have one question about it, let me run by you in a PM and see what you think. }8-) Posted by misato | nikto.net 4/19/2006 03:30:12 Play online chess Just one question remains, Matt:Message: My solutions were less elegant: Bobby couldnt play 128 games because then no guests answer could have been "zero". So a guest was to say "128". Let it be a man, so his wife is the only one with a possible answer "zero" (because this guy played all other participants). And then step by step downwards ("127" is impossible for Bobby as well because of the "1"). Or you start with "Bobbys answer zero is impossible because ..." and go upwards step by step. I like the idea of the additive complement better, thanks! Posted by ionadowman | nikto.net 4/19/2006 13:13:42 Play online chess But...Message: One is that we don't need to suppose that each couple's games totalled 128. All we have to do, as ccmcacollister is indicating is to take complementary pairs. It is true, however, that Miyoko and Bobby play 64 games each. Now, what if we were to pair up players whose games totalled 129? 128+1, 127+2, ..., 64+65. All different. That means Bobby played no games at all: zero. However many games Miyoko played is immaterial, though according to the parameters of the puzzle, it must have been not more than 128. Does this work? Or is this no solution because Miyoko would have in fact to have played 129 games? Back to the pencil and paper methinks.... Posted by misato | nikto.net 4/19/2006 18:12:16 Play online chess 129 for each pair is impossible Message: 65 (=number of couples) * 129 = 8385 would be the overall total, so - like you pointed out correctly - there is a difference of 129 (=Miyokos number) which is a contradiction. I agree that this is no valid solution. 130 * 65 = 8450 is far too much. Less than 128 games for each guest pair doesnt work either: 127 * 64 = 8128, so Bobbys number would be 8256 - 8128 = 128 (so he played all guest persons). Also impossible because of the one zero-answer. And 126 * 64 = 8064 is far too few. But why can we suppose that the couples sums are always the same result, for each couple (at least for the guest couples)? I know that this assumption is true (with the result of 128), but I cant find an easy explanation for that. My non-easy explanation is that the zero-players partner is the only one with 128 possible games. So one pair is 128+0, and this must be a guest pair. And then find the combination for the 1-player (who only played the 128-player), the 127-player must be their wife/husband (guest pair as well). And so on ... But this is close to my step-by-step-solution. Posted by tag1153 | nikto.net 4/19/2006 22:05:25 Play online chess I've run this one by Fritz.......Message: Posted by far1ey | nikto.net 4/19/2006 23:42:02 Play online chess Reply tagMessage: PS: Ms Scarlet did it, in the Study with the lead pipe;) Posted by muppyman | nikto.net 4/20/2006 02:07:41 Play online chess in that case,Message: Posted by ionadowman | nikto.net 4/20/2006 13:06:14 Play online chess Preparing dinner...Message: A fine puzzle, misato! It were the butler wot done it. Cheers, Ion Posted by fmgaijin | nikto.net 4/21/2006 09:47:45 Play online chess I Am Deeply Hurt . . . Message: *Taking Miyoko-chan off of my Ochugen gift list* Posted by ionadowman | nikto.net 4/21/2006 14:23:47 Play online chess Not only do we know now... Message: Colonel Cranberry-Sauce, with the suburban utility vehicle, in the driveway. Cheers, Ion |