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Posted by ckholm nikto.net 9/13/2008 05:10:37 play online chess	Subject: The Ideas Behind the Chess Openings, Reuben Fine Message: Hi, In one of his development of the centre game he suggest : 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. Qxd4 Nc6 4. Qe3 Nf6 5. Nc3 Be7 6. Bd2 d5 7. exd5 Nxd5 8. Nxd5 Qxd5 9. Ne2 Bg4 10. Nf4 Qd7 11. f3 O-O-O ! 12. O-O-O Bf5 Why 11. ... O-O-O ! and why the blacks don't take the bishop ? Ok then they'd be uncastling but I think they could still win, couldn't they ?
Posted by chessnovice nikto.net 9/13/2008 11:56:17 play online chess	... Message: 12. fxg4? Bh4+ 13. g3 Rhe8 14. Qxe8 Rxe8+
Posted by ckholm nikto.net 9/13/2008 14:15:29 play online chess	Message: what about : 12. fxg4 Bh4+ 13. Kd1 13. g3? is the silliest move. Anyway, thanks for answering.
Posted by chessnovice nikto.net 9/13/2008 17:19:49 play online chess	... Message: I admittedly looked at the line you gave only briefly, but I still think Bh4+ is the move being avoided. Rhe8 seems strong to me even in the face of Kd1. Perhaps it's avoiding the threat of 12. ... Rhe8, a move even sooner. I guess I'll have to give it a closer look than I did.
Posted by tugger nikto.net 9/13/2008 17:23:46 play online chess	Message: i don't like the position for white if he takes the bishop, black has the bishop pinned already, can pin the knight and can pile on the pressure on the queen... 12. fxg4? Bh4+ 13. Kd1 Bg5 14. h4 R(h)e8 15. Qd3 Bxf4 16. Bxf4 Qe6 other lines seem to play in black's favour too, so 11... 0-0-0 makes perfect sense to me, it's a clever move designed to entice white to take the bishop. and well done white for spotting the danger, and castling quickly.
Posted by ionadowman nikto.net 9/14/2008 01:07:33 play online chess	In his monograph on the Centre Game... Message: ... L.M.Pickett (1976) gives this line, observing that 12.fxg4 "leads White into difficulty": 12 ...Bh4+ 13.Kd1 Rhe8 14.Qd3 Qxg4+ 15.Be2 Rxe2 16.Qxe2 Qxf4 17.Kc1 Nd4, which Paul Keres assessed as (+/-). It seems that 12...Rhe1 or 12...Bc5 are also likely to lead to a Black advantage. In view of the threatening stance Black can take up after 12.fxg4, it would appear best to be avoided - unless you want to exercise your defensive technique! Cheers, Ion
Posted by ckholm nikto.net 9/14/2008 05:59:40 play online chess	Message: Ok, but then why did white play 11. f3 ? It's a waste of time, they coud've (shoud've) move their light square bishop ?
Posted by ckholm nikto.net 9/14/2008 06:03:13 play online chess	Message: ionadowman, thanks, nice explanation.
Posted by ionadowman nikto.net 9/15/2008 04:27:52 play online chess	Fair question ... Message: ... and indeed Pickett passes it by without comment. Looking at the position, though, it is a difficult move to go past. It looks logical, to cut off the bishop's action along the white sqaures in White's field. 11.Be2 Nd4 looks rather unpleasant, inducing the bishop to move again: 12.Bd3. Against any other bishop move, Black just develops normally with 12.0-0-0. An illustration of what a nuisance the g4-B can be is this horrible possibility: 11.Bc4!? 0-0-0 12.Bxf7?? Bc5! 13.Qxc5?? Qxd2+ 14.Kf1 Qd1+ 15.Rxd1 Rxd1#. So, given the position at move 11, f2-f3 seems to be called for. After 11.f3 0-0-0 12.0-0-0 Black really does have to move the bishop. At liege in 1930 Frank Marshall tried to sac the thing by 12...Rhe8 against Sultan Khan, and got axed in 22 moves (13.fxg4 Bg5 14.Qf2 and already Marshall didn't have enough attack). Having said all that, both sides have other options, especially Black at move 4 and White at move 6. Cheers, Ion
Posted by tugger nikto.net 9/17/2008 05:50:12 play online chess	Message: "Ok, but then why did white play 11. f3 ?" absolutely, but it is possible that white was unaware of the danger until black player 0-0-0, then he analysed and realised he wasted a move!
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